I like the breadth of ideation you've devoted to promoting the indie/hybrid cause, but the kitemark proposal seems to favour previous traditionally published authors in allowing them to have their indie works fast tracked through the traditional distribution and sales channels. It does nothing to help an indie author who is building their sales from the ground up without any traditional publishing background. The kitemark, as proposed, might even be seen by such authors as executing a gatekeeping function.
Yes, these are all good points. The mark I’m driving at is about standards. I love how open the indie field is, and so it should be, and I know that authors have different ambitions. The Kitemark is for authors who are committed to producing quality on a par with the mainstream, a standard that takes the resources of time, energy, experience, professionalism and, yes, some money. It’s less a gatekeeping than a club.
I understand (and wading through a South American river's backwaters to reach islands of quality is a tedious affair), but there remains an implicit assumption that "mainstream" equals 'traditional' and equates to quality. As with many other disrupted media, might this change in future?
Yes absolutely, in fact it has changed. Mainstream does not, in truth equal quality at all, but in persuading the resources to highlight indie, we need to suggest the reference point even if it’s not in reality true. It’s smoke and mirrors to get indies treated with the same open door as mainstream by booksellers, prizes, events, reviewers, podcasters etc
Yes, indeed! I'd welcome any clarion call for 'equal representation without segregation' – commercial, financial, literal or otherwise. Thank you for creating this conversation, Eleanor.
"We’re being left behind so this is a starting point, an opening of the conversation to bring the industry into the 21st century, evolve together, develop greater sophistication in our language, remove barriers, promote variation and give the public what they want; books of every stripe produced well. I want to establish an indie kitemark because I want a fighting chance to again be on the same stage as my peers, and because there’s a revolution going on, and I want everyone on board. "
Beautiful delivery through Q&A on your blog's closure; I'd definitely bookmark it;
It might be interesting to contrast this idea with Kirkus Review. I don't know anything about KR except they will review a book for a fee and then allow the author to choose whether to publish the review. Are they respected as a reviewer?
Hey Eleanor, nice to 'meet' you... I clicked over thanks to Matthew Long's recent Commonplace post and he mentioned your essay.
A couple of thoughts/suggestions: I have 3 published books--2 self published--2017 and 2021--and one with a small press in Oregon--poetry. Yay poetry.
I've been around the traditional Christian market for about 12 years and watched scores of friends land contracts for books with several different imprints-but the gatekeeping and timeline and You-Still-Have-to-do-the-Marketing did not call to me.
That being said, as an author and someone who now consults and coaches other writers in the indie process, your idea about adding a layer of accountability and credibility to the process is brilliant, because oh my goodness, there are so very, very many poorly done self-published books!
Amazon/KDP is free-ish and Ingram Spark is nearly so--hence the floodgates of poor quality are open to all.
Your brainstorm is a great option.
Also, are you familiar with Jane Friedman's work? She writes a publishing Hot Sheet and has had much to say in a few podcast interview I heard earlier this year about the power of the indie market...
Hi Jody, thanks for getting in touch. Yes, it’s the standards that I want to raise, or at least hive off a noticeable avenue for us who wish to have high publishing standards and have them noticed and made way for in the main market. I’m not familiar with Jane Friedman’s work. I’ll check her out. Not much has come as a result of that article, I’m hoping it’s planted seeds but as far as the Publishers Association goes, it’s been crickets. I’m of a mind now just to push on through and make the work do the talking.
Jane may be a good bridge for you--she's got years of experience and connections and perspective. Who knows? You can tell her I suggested you read/reach out to her.
It kind of sounds to me like creating a second traditional route to circumvent the current traditional route.
The indie publishing “revolution” is over a decade old. Substack is what’s new.
To me, the benefit of Substack is to curate and recommend. It’s less overwhelming than going to a traditional retailer and staring at all the millions of choices. I can make connections with people and their work.
Instead of (or in addition to?) creating an association or standards body, why not create a curated bookstore?
I do wonder if something like this would move the needle. I am, at the moment, trying to become an “official member” of the HWA. I put the word official in quotes because you can be a paying member which is like a supporting member (which I am) but to be like an official-official member you have to prove that you’ve earned it financially. Made X amount of sales or been paid X amount for your work.
I think all capital “A” Associations work this way. And when you earn that membership then you get to boast, “I write good, cause look, I am an Official member of X Association.” And the future sales should just start rolling in because I’ve been vetted and therefore it stands to reason…
But there is skill involved. The hurdle to get in, while not insurmountable, can be for just anybody. I haven’t reached it yet. And so, I can’t speak to whether or not having that kind of street cred can actually work.
There are these types of Associations and Guilds that come with a fancy medallion or image to put on your books and website and benefits that are really great for the members.
But I can only imagine how long it took for the HWA to be a respected organization that when people see it they understand what it means. It’s a steep hill of building trust to climb and I fear today could even be harder with much more scrutiny. Not saying it isn’t possible, just might take longer for people to buy in.
I like the breadth of ideation you've devoted to promoting the indie/hybrid cause, but the kitemark proposal seems to favour previous traditionally published authors in allowing them to have their indie works fast tracked through the traditional distribution and sales channels. It does nothing to help an indie author who is building their sales from the ground up without any traditional publishing background. The kitemark, as proposed, might even be seen by such authors as executing a gatekeeping function.
Yes, these are all good points. The mark I’m driving at is about standards. I love how open the indie field is, and so it should be, and I know that authors have different ambitions. The Kitemark is for authors who are committed to producing quality on a par with the mainstream, a standard that takes the resources of time, energy, experience, professionalism and, yes, some money. It’s less a gatekeeping than a club.
I understand (and wading through a South American river's backwaters to reach islands of quality is a tedious affair), but there remains an implicit assumption that "mainstream" equals 'traditional' and equates to quality. As with many other disrupted media, might this change in future?
Yes absolutely, in fact it has changed. Mainstream does not, in truth equal quality at all, but in persuading the resources to highlight indie, we need to suggest the reference point even if it’s not in reality true. It’s smoke and mirrors to get indies treated with the same open door as mainstream by booksellers, prizes, events, reviewers, podcasters etc
Yes, indeed! I'd welcome any clarion call for 'equal representation without segregation' – commercial, financial, literal or otherwise. Thank you for creating this conversation, Eleanor.
"We’re being left behind so this is a starting point, an opening of the conversation to bring the industry into the 21st century, evolve together, develop greater sophistication in our language, remove barriers, promote variation and give the public what they want; books of every stripe produced well. I want to establish an indie kitemark because I want a fighting chance to again be on the same stage as my peers, and because there’s a revolution going on, and I want everyone on board. "
Beautiful delivery through Q&A on your blog's closure; I'd definitely bookmark it;
It might be interesting to contrast this idea with Kirkus Review. I don't know anything about KR except they will review a book for a fee and then allow the author to choose whether to publish the review. Are they respected as a reviewer?
Yes, they are. That’s an interesting idea.
Thanks for fanning the flames of hope and change!
Hey Eleanor, nice to 'meet' you... I clicked over thanks to Matthew Long's recent Commonplace post and he mentioned your essay.
A couple of thoughts/suggestions: I have 3 published books--2 self published--2017 and 2021--and one with a small press in Oregon--poetry. Yay poetry.
I've been around the traditional Christian market for about 12 years and watched scores of friends land contracts for books with several different imprints-but the gatekeeping and timeline and You-Still-Have-to-do-the-Marketing did not call to me.
That being said, as an author and someone who now consults and coaches other writers in the indie process, your idea about adding a layer of accountability and credibility to the process is brilliant, because oh my goodness, there are so very, very many poorly done self-published books!
Amazon/KDP is free-ish and Ingram Spark is nearly so--hence the floodgates of poor quality are open to all.
Your brainstorm is a great option.
Also, are you familiar with Jane Friedman's work? She writes a publishing Hot Sheet and has had much to say in a few podcast interview I heard earlier this year about the power of the indie market...
So many possibilities!
Hi Jody, thanks for getting in touch. Yes, it’s the standards that I want to raise, or at least hive off a noticeable avenue for us who wish to have high publishing standards and have them noticed and made way for in the main market. I’m not familiar with Jane Friedman’s work. I’ll check her out. Not much has come as a result of that article, I’m hoping it’s planted seeds but as far as the Publishers Association goes, it’s been crickets. I’m of a mind now just to push on through and make the work do the talking.
Jane may be a good bridge for you--she's got years of experience and connections and perspective. Who knows? You can tell her I suggested you read/reach out to her.
May God bless your efforts!
Fab. Thanks. Will do.
It kind of sounds to me like creating a second traditional route to circumvent the current traditional route.
The indie publishing “revolution” is over a decade old. Substack is what’s new.
To me, the benefit of Substack is to curate and recommend. It’s less overwhelming than going to a traditional retailer and staring at all the millions of choices. I can make connections with people and their work.
Instead of (or in addition to?) creating an association or standards body, why not create a curated bookstore?
I do wonder if something like this would move the needle. I am, at the moment, trying to become an “official member” of the HWA. I put the word official in quotes because you can be a paying member which is like a supporting member (which I am) but to be like an official-official member you have to prove that you’ve earned it financially. Made X amount of sales or been paid X amount for your work.
I think all capital “A” Associations work this way. And when you earn that membership then you get to boast, “I write good, cause look, I am an Official member of X Association.” And the future sales should just start rolling in because I’ve been vetted and therefore it stands to reason…
But there is skill involved. The hurdle to get in, while not insurmountable, can be for just anybody. I haven’t reached it yet. And so, I can’t speak to whether or not having that kind of street cred can actually work.
There are these types of Associations and Guilds that come with a fancy medallion or image to put on your books and website and benefits that are really great for the members.
But I can only imagine how long it took for the HWA to be a respected organization that when people see it they understand what it means. It’s a steep hill of building trust to climb and I fear today could even be harder with much more scrutiny. Not saying it isn’t possible, just might take longer for people to buy in.
I'm not familiar with the HWA. Who are they?
The Horror Writers Association
Ah. Thanks